How AI is reshaping education

[Ed — 00:00] You see students being rejected for schools when they're three or four years old. The 11 plus in London is brutal. You see students doing seven or eight A levels and trying to force their way into Oxford. That simply doesn't work. Founding something when you're young is a huge advantage. We have people who come from foster home who we give scholarships to and have free education. [Gaia — 00:20] What do you think one to one education can offer a kid from a from a technical standpoint? So what techniques can you use during one to one that maybe schools miss out on? [Ed — 00:30] So I think it's... [Angelica — 00:31 Today we're speaking with Ed, founder of Renewed Learning, the education company providing Oxbridge educated tutors with locations in the UK and Hong Kong. Hi Ed. [Gaia — 00:42] So tell us a bit more about your company. [Ed — 00:44] Sure. So I started it back in 2019, in my first year at university. I'd been tutoring privately that year and I'd really enjoyed it as a kind of a way of earning some money. And I thought that there were plenty of tutoring companies out there and they were very good at servicing clients but not very good at looking after the tutors. So I thought there was a market for us to make a business where we could look after both the client and the student but also the tutor. Because I think tutoring as an industry is unique in terms of everyone should be happy. I think we should make sure the student gets the grades they want, the parents are happy with what they get and with the feedback they get from us, but also the tutor should enjoy it because they're sharing their passion and their interest with their students. So it started with the website, as all businesses do, and then the following year it was Covid. Covid was really quite fortunate timing for us. Lots of schools in London were struggling to get the online teaching balance quite right. So it started with me teaching myself and I hired a few friends because it was going beyond my scope of work. Then I quickly realised that friends weren't necessarily the best employees because there's slight barriers between professionalism and friendship. So we started hiring other people. And we've since grown and in 2022 I left university and moved to Hong Kong and we opened up Renewed Learning Asia, our branch in Hong Kong. We now have about 200 tutors, some of which are full time. We have about five full time tutors in Hong Kong, a couple in the UK and the rest are part time. And we work with students around the world, in person in Hong Kong and the UK and online around the world. [Angelica 02:19] I think it'd be really interesting to speak about how the education system differs in the UK versus in Hong Kong. What have you found with that? [Ed — 02:27] Yeah, so I think it varies hugely, I think. So in terms of the kind of structure of how it works, it's broadly similar. Most schools in the independent sector in Hong Kong do IGCSE like in the UK. There's a mixture of IB and A level and some AP which is the American system. But in terms of how students approach academics, it's wildly different. I think in the UK students are tend to be quite confident and they tend to rely on their self-confidence to get around a problem. They won't work, they will just assume they can do it and kind of use their self-confidence to get around a problem. Whilst in Asia it's the opposite. They work very very hard and get top grades but might struggle to do an interview for Oxford or something or to do problem solving skills because they're so used to rote learning. And so I think one of the big challenges that we face there is building that confidence that so many people in the UK naturally have and making sure they have that holistic academic side to them. [Angelica — 03:10] So is that more the social aspect of it then, in terms of presentations and [Ed — 03:19] Yeah, I think it's how they approach a problem. I think in the UK we see students who are very capable of taking their skill set and applying it to a problem, whilst in Asia that's something that needs training a bit more. I think it's simply because in schools they don't teach that. And for example, we're working with a school in China currently and they have been trying to get people into Oxford and Cambridge for the last five years. And the general approach in China is to do as many A levels as possible. So you see students doing seven or eight A levels and trying to force their way into Oxford. And that simply doesn't work. So we have 200 tutors, all of whom have been to Oxford and Cambridge. I've spoken to professors, I've spoken to all sorts of people. And the way to get in is to have a genuine interest, to be passionate about your subject and to have shown that passion. So what we're doing with this school is we're restructuring their programme entirely. We're helping them move to GCSEs and A levels, but also building out a programme from year nine to year 13 where we teach them the problem solving skills, the interview skills, the debating, the things that you get at a top UK school. And I think that's quite revolutionary in China, certainly. [Gaia — 04: 17] What would you say, because obviously you're very familiar with both the UK and Hong Kong system, what would you say, each system can learn from the other? So where do you think they could like Asia could improve its system or the UK could improve its system? [Ed — 04:31] Good question. So I think in the UK we can certainly learn from Asia. I think in terms of how global it is. I think in the UK we in lots of ways tend to focus on the UK only itself in terms of our friends, um, from school or university. Most of them have stayed in the UK. I think there are opportunities around the world, whether it be colleges in the US, Canada, Australia, all around the world, where people should make the most of these opportunities, work opportunities abroad. And Asia by virtue of the fact that most people move away for university and college has that international feel to it. So I think the UK could learn certainly from that. I think in Asia, I think it's potentially again that confidence. It's that ability to speak to people, no matter how senior they are in whatever career they are, and give a best account of themselves in a in a first impression. [Gaia — 05:28] And would you say that's cultural maybe because there is a culture there where there's more respect for seniors? What where do you think that comes from? [Ed —05:38] Potentially. I think lots of our students and families are quite international. So they're expats potentially, as well as locals. So I'm not quite sure it's necessarily cultural. I think it's just a nuance of the system. And I think it's to how schools just are different in different places. [Angelica— 05:54] Yeah. Interesting. So, you're obviously quite young, founded this business quite young. I think it'll be really interesting for the audience is “if you could go back, A, what would you do differently, and B, what would you what are the challenges you could never have foreseen?” [Ed — 06:15 So I think I'd like to start by answering the other way around. So I think founding something when you're young is a huge advantage. And that's kind of my biggest passion about entrepreneurship, or I hate that word. I think I started when I was 19. That's my first year at university. And what that meant is I had two more years at university, which was a safety net. I was still doing my degree and so if I didn't succeed in my business, I could go and get a job. And indeed I did internships every summer in traditional corporate careers as a safety net. But what that meant is I didn't leave university and have to start a business. I could leave with a salary that I knew I could have already. And so I would really urge young people to start a business as young as they can, whether they're 16, 17 at school or 19, 20 at university. It just gives you that time where you can really build the business slowly, without the pressure to hit certain revenue targets or to raise money, but just to grow it, bootstrap it. And that means you ultimately end up with the equity you need and the flexibility and freedom and autonomy to decide where you want to grow the business. [Gaia —07:15] Well, you would say it's important to have a plan B to fall back on because most, I mean, some of the founders that we've spoken to maybe haven't gone to university or went into it without having that plan B. So maybe there was you would say maybe there was too much pressure. [Ed — 07:27] Well, I think going all in on a business is super important, of course. I think those founders presumably have just focused on their business and that's kind of the Y Combinator model, the entrepreneur first model. That's how all those businesses work and that's great. But I think if you are young and you are at school or at high education like university or college, you naturally have a fallback. You can leave university with a great grade, great university and then you can get a job. So you don't necessarily need to go and do the internships if you want to spend your summers growing a business and making some money. [Angelica — 07:55] So what are the differences with educating one to one versus at school where there are multiple kids in a classroom? [Ed — 07:59] So I think that's the beauty of tutoring. I think tutoring can often have a bad rap, but I think that there's a huge advantage to working one to one with a student. I think you can really build the confidence where a student in a school might be shy to ask questions, but you can really focus on their insecurities and work with the student to encourage them to grow as a person, both in that subject but beyond. And more than that, I think you want to work with the family. I think we have such a variety of families we work with, whether it be our ultra-high net worth families, who we have to look after their needs, to some of the people who are on scholarships for us. We have people who come from foster homes who we give scholarships to and have free education. And that is clearly very different to someone who comes from an ultra-high net worth family where they're used to things just happening. So I think that ability for myself and my business partner to really understand the family is so important and understand what their needs are beyond their GCSE maths. So really, what are their needs as a student and as a family and how can we best support that? [Gaia — 08:58] Do you ever have to have difficult conversations? So say maybe a student wants to go to university and study a certain subject but maybe you as a tutor think that there's more potential somewhere else or maybe they want to go to a school that you don't think would best suit them. How do you have those difficult conversations? [Ed — 09:18] Great question. So I'm a big believer in students who are happy to succeed. So I think that a student being pushed to go to a certain university or a certain course, if they don't enjoy it and won't thrive there, they won't end up being the place they want to be. So I often speak to families, schools, students and suggest that they follow the path that interests them, that they are capable of doing. And of course, we are there to support them and make sure that they can get to where they want to get to. But if someone's pushed too hard, then it can lead to unfortunate outcomes where they can't, even if they get into university, can't thrive at that university and that it is not conducive to that student's later on. [Angelica — 09:52] And do you see when you're tutoring these kids, can you see the kids that are under a lot of pressure and then how that translates in performance? [Ed — 10:02] Yeah, and again that comes down to that family dynamic, where some students are so pressurised that for us we make sure there's a kind of a pressure valve where they can release that pressure, where in school at home they don't get that. But whilst making sure that we are balancing the family's desires to have that student really progress, whilst other families, the student might be much more relaxed. And so we have to act as the bad cop and really tell the tutor you've got to go in and be really strict and make sure they do their homework and get to where they want to get to. So it's the nuances are immense. I think that's where one to one education is so valuable to a family and to a student. [Gaia — 10:54] What do you think one to one education can offer a kid from a technical standpoint? So what techniques can you use during one to one that maybe schools miss out on? [Ed — 10:59] So I think it's it all comes down to how you approach a question or a problem. I think in schools you might learn how to solve something, whether it's a quadratic, for example. But what you can do one to one is you can give someone a challenge and go through, okay, here's a challenge. And we get challenges all the time, whether it be in an exam or in life. And that resilience to go through and go, okay, I'm stuck, but how can I approach this question, this problem logically with the information I have and try and get to an answer. I think that is the beauty, where you can have that that conversation, that discussion and make sure that's not just a teacher dictating to a class of 30 kids, but that back and forth allows a student to learn how to do it themselves. [Gaia — 11:35] I'm just thinking, uh, this is probably a huge topic for you guys, but how does AI factor into this? [Angelica — 11:39] That was actually my next question. [Gaia — 11:42] You got it, yeah. [Ed — 11:45] So AI is really interesting. I think schools have wildly different approaches. Some schools love AI and get the kids to use AI the whole time. Other schools shun it entirely. So I think AI is something which has clearly huge appeal in an academic setting. I think the ability for students to do something and test this and get the answers back immediately is hugely valuable. But there are students who clearly use AI to do their homework for them. And so I think our role as schools or as parents do as well, is to monitor that and make sure the students learn to use AI in the right way. I think AI is a great tool for so many people in so many industries, um, but you need to learn to use it in a responsible way and to learn to use it in a way that helps you. Because if you rely on it too much to do the basic things you'll be tested on, you won't succeed, obviously. And that will be that will be challenges in the future. [Angelica — 12:27] What do you think the best thing is for AI practically in education? [Ed — 12:32] I think it gives that ability for one to one education and immediate feedback to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford tutoring, potentially. I think whilst we do offer scholarships, we can't provide scholarships to every single person in the UK, whilst I would love to. And there are great charities doing, uh, and volunteering work. But I think AI, where it's there, it can give an essay and give what's and you can ask it to be an IGCSE examiner or whatever the exam is and say, what would your feedback be to me? And a student can immediately see what the feedback would be and implement it and practise. That iteration is so important in business and education and that's what AI provides, I think. [Angerica — 13:13] Is there a specific AI tool that you'd recommend? [Ed — 13:18] So I think it changes so quickly. I think lots of schools use Flint, which does a variety of things but if you're doing maths or anything else, I think anything from Claude to Open Ai can do can do it. I think for me to give an answer now, it would probably change in six months' time. [Gaia — 13:29] Is there a difference, do you see a difference in the way that Asia approaches AI and the UK approaches AI from an education standpoint, in terms of the regulations and the way that the schools [Ed — 13:40] The regulations are interesting. I think in China and Hong Kong, for example, lots of the AI models aren't allowed. So you can't access Claude or Open AI, So you can use Copilot, is what lots of schools use, I think. So that's one big structural difference. [Gaia — 14:05] Do you think that puts them at a disadvantage? If so students in the UK have access to that and are able to if they do use it in a in an effective way? [Ed — 14:13] And the more tools you have access to, the more you can learn, of course. But I'm sure most people will use one AI in the same way you use one search engine or one music app, like Spotify or Apple Music. You don't use everything, you just need to use one. So as long as you've access to one that helps you, I think it doesn't matter too much. [Angelica — 14:36] Where do you see the arts in the education system? [Ed — 14:38] Arts being ? [Angelica — 14:39] Art, music, creativity, any drama. Do you see that as part of the education system that's maybe lacking or you should push ? [Ed — 14:51] So I think it’s really interesting, kind of the extra curriculars, sports and music as well, make it broader. So I think what's strange that if you're applying to the US for college, that stuff is so important. If you're applying to Oxbridge, that stuff doesn't matter at all, unless you're applying for music, obviously. But what we say is that stuff does matter. It matters to your happiness and your holistic well-being. And actually, we often do a talk where we go to schools and talk about entrepreneurship and business and we have a great partner who we work with who does career services as well. And when we go to schools, we always say, yes, this stuff doesn't matter for Oxbridge. And she says, it matters hugely for jobs. Because if you're the first team or you have a passion in music, that's really valuable to a company whose hiring. So our answer is yes, that stuff hugely matters. It gives you that colour to your life that means you're a person, you aren't a machine. And so I think people should follow their passions and do it because they want to do it and pursue it in whatever way appeals to them. It doesn't necessarily have to be grades, it can be just a passion. And passionate students are again the ones who succeed most. [Angelica — 15:57] What's your passion? [Ed — 15:59] My passion varies quite a lot. I love being outside, I love exercising. So this summer I'm going on a cycling trip with a couple of friends, Pakistan and Kyrgyzstan. So that kind of adventure stuff is what makes me tick. [Gaia — 16:14] And what gives you that balance between work and outside of work ? [Ed — 16:15] Exactly. [Gaia — 16:19] And would you say that you always knew that you wanted to start your own thing? [Ed — 16:20] Absolutely not. [Angelica — 16:22] Oh, okay. [Ed — 16:25] I think I was really lucky, I fell into it. I did politics, philosophy and economics at university. So I probably assumed I'd always go into the corporate world of some sort. I did internships in recruitment, banking, investment banking and consulting. And I went into each of those where I had my business kind of growing at the same time. The thing I learned is I didn't love it. I didn't hate it, I enjoyed aspects of it. The people who I saw progress really quickly were the ones who lived and breathed the job they were doing. And I didn't have that passion, so I didn't think it was the path for me. I was fortunate enough to start a business when I was young, like I said, and to have it grow and to enjoy the growth and enjoy the business strategy. So when I left university I had that option available to me. And I would really urge people again to start a business when they're young, just to see where it goes. If you make no money or make a bit of money, great. It's not about the money itself, it's about the opportunities it gives you. And I think that's really important. Again, you speak about these ultra-high net worth clients we have or the various people we're connected with. We work with amazing people from partners to clients to schools. And it's given me amazing opportunities as a person and as a business, with people getting in touch the whole time asking all sorts of interesting questions and on this podcast with you guys. and that I think as a founder is a really rewarding experience. [Angelica— 17:52] What's the most fulfilling aspect of Renewed Learning? [Ed — 17:55] I think the most fulfilling aspect is seeing people be happy. I think when a student succeeds, whether it be getting into Oxford or getting a C in their maths which they need, and we do all of that, that's and seeing the parents happy, the students happy and the tutors happy is the most fulfilling thing. [Angelica — 18:07] Can you really see a student develop in their confidence, far just their academic skill set? And that must feel great to see. [Ed — 18:15] It's great. I think it really helps everyone involved. I think the tutors get this really like unique, uh, feeling when they do that in a way that you wouldn't get in other industries. I think it's great. And you can really see how a little bit of help can help a student progress in a massive way. [Gaia — 18:33] So what would you say are the three main tips that you would have for someone who's reviewing now for exams? [Ed — 18:38] Good question. So this is quite personal, but I think the key things are to make sure that you get the balance right. So making sure again you're happy is really important. We see some students who do very little work, they need to work at it more and some students who spend the whole day at their desk. It's always important to be effective when you work. So number one is make sure you balance your time correctly. If you don't feel like it, don't work. Make sure you are focusing when you are there and giving 100 percent. Number two, always approach the most difficult things first. I think that's the same in business, I think it's the same in in education. Is everyone knows if you're revising for history or maths or English or whatever it is, the topics you hate, approach those first, do the things that are really hard and then when you're tired, in the evening, focus on the easier things. And I think number three is asking for help. I think whether that's your family, your friends, I know of myself when I was doing my own education journey, working with friends was amazing, as long you choose the right friend. Teachers at schools are always generally, um, happy to help and have a great wealth of experience. And of course, as I said, a student always asks for a tutor. think asking for help is a really good way of making sure you realise you aren't you aren't alone. [Gaia — 19:54] Perfect ! [Angelica — 19:56] And what's your advice on rejection? [Ed — 19:57] Good question. I think rejection happens in all aspects of life. I think in education it's brutal. We see students being rejected for schools when they're three or four years old. The 11 plus in London is brutal. University, people apply for five universities and they're very lucky to get three. So rejection's really hard. But I think that skill of learning to be rejected, is again, so important. That resilience you learn, um, and how to get through it and to make sure that when you apply for something, that all your options are something you are interested in. I think it's really important for anyone applying for university. Don't pin your hopes on going to UCL or Exeter or Oxford. Make sure your five options that are really exciting and you're happy to go to all of them, because you don't know where you're going to end up. There's so much luck involved in any decision, whether it's getting a job in a particular industry, whether it's going to university or a school or your grades. So be confident, know that you've done your best and then life will work out. [Angelica — 20:46] I was about to say, it always works out. [Ed — 20:47] It does. [Gaia — 20:47] It does. [Angelica — 21:00] Thank you so much. [Ed — 21:03] Thanks so much, guys.